Ask The Grade Doctor

Question

My question to you is this. How can you continue to support the idea of not giving zeros, late penalty mark exclusion, failing to provide extra credit opportunities that count for grades, ignoring the real-world consequences of plagiarism, and more in light of recent trends in Canadian productivity, the acknowledged failure of No Child Left Behind, University upheaval with respect to grading in Canada and policies that do not resemble your recommendations employed around the world? As evidence and for your consideration I have accumulated much evidence in the form of an electronic presentation which I will email separately.

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Question

When Dallas (Oregon) School District recently redesigned our assessment policies and practices, we were heavily infoluenced by your writing and your presentation at the Solution Tree Assessment Summit in Atlanta (2008). Now we are grappling with a problem that threatens to derail us:

Many parents and students have questioned our decision to allow "retakes" of assessments, especially as we've placed no limit on the number of times a student can retake an assessment (until the semester ends). Do you have any suggestions about how we should handle the retake issue?

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Question

How can I apply in a class the fix 6 by ken O'Connor "don't include

groups scores in grades; use only individual achievement evidence"

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Question

As assistant superintendent in a Mississippi school district of about 4,000 students, I have been directed by the superintendent and school board to research the negatives and positives of moving from a 7 point grading scale that highly resembles a bell curve to a 10 point grading scale (90-100 = A; 80-89 = B; 70-79 = C; 65-69 = D). After speaking to the registrar office of several junior colleges and universities, I have been advised by the registrars that a 10 point scale is best for our students - especially when it comes to competing for scholarships. To date 110 out of 152 school districts in Mississippi have moved to a 10 point scale. What is your take on moving to a 10 point scale? Are you against it or for it, or is it as simple as that?

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Question

Several from my school heard you speak at the 2003 EARCOS conference in Bangkok, and you

radically changed our thinking. After all these years our school is finally ready to implement a new

assessment and grading philosophy. For our teacher training next school year, we have been

considering two of your books-- How to Grade for Learning and 15 Fixes for Broken grades. We

are doing training for teachers in grades 6-12, and we use a small group book study format

supplemented by an all-school in-service day. Which book would you recommend for the book

study, and what resources would you recommend for the in-service day? Note: We can't afford to

buy both books for all the staff.

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Question

Hi Ken,



Could you explain to me why it is not good practice to average a student's grade even though you are not using zeros? What about putting more weight on certain assignments and tests?

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Question

Hi Ken,


I am looking for resources on rubric for assessing to outcomes/standards. IN particular, I am looking for some quality research or examples that illustrate what "mastery" would look like. Htere is a lot of debate amongst some colleagues that mastery of an outcome should hit the highest levels of bloom's taxonomy. Any clarification/support you could offer, would be appreciated.

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Question

How much of a final trimester grade or yearly grade should be from summative assignments and what percentage should come from formative? What is best practice for formative vs. summative? What does the current research state? Can you lead me to some of these articles/books? Thanks in advance.

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Question

Good Mr. O'Connor, We are reading your book as a school and are hoping that you can provide us some clarification on what your definition of "effort" is in regards to developing a common grading practice. Thank you in advance, Susan Britton

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Question

Mr. O Connor:

As a middle school PE teacher, I am trying to sort through how to get going on Stand. Based Grading. I like deaing with the standards and not the behaviors, dressing out, etc....If it is my departments philosophy to have our units last only 2 weeks before moving on to another unit, how am I to gather enough information to assess all 37 kids? Since my domain is physical performance, should I not take longer? What about the child who just has no skill, no matter how much I work with him? thank you so much for your vision on grading & assessment.

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Question

After reading your book on the "15 Fixes", we've decided to rewrite our school plagiarism policy. The one we currently have is far too wordy and quite ineffective. Would you have any samples of effective policies? What do you think should be included in such a policy?

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Question

It appears that elementary schools are taking the first step in our county to "fix the broken grade" syndrome and that middle schools and high schools are "fighting" the changes. However, it also appears that there is still a lot of subjectivity in assessing and interpreting the standards at many levels. For example, our county is changing the meaning of the standards every nine weeks via a rubric for the standards based report card. This makes reporting confusing to parents because one nine weeks students may earn a "3" for meeting expectations (based on the particular quarter's rubric) and the next nine weeks students could drop to a "2" which means "in progress" based on the newer/more difficult expectations for the same standard based next quarter's rubric. In order for the child to pass to the next grade they have to have a certain number of "3's" in the Language Arts and Math areas. It is very possible that if teachers have been grading via the rubric certain children have gotten "3's", but will not be able to "meet the expectations" the last nine weeks and end up with "twos" and possibly not earn enough "threes" for promotion. Do you have any suggestions/comments? Is it OK to assess using the standards and standards based report card with the last quarter rubric and assess with the "end in mind"? Also do you know of any states that have used standards based report cards in the past and have gone back to traditional report cards? Can you suggest a good example of a standards based report card format for middle school and high school that are being used in the United States? (PS.I am using your Repair kit book and How to Grade for Learning as texts in an assessment class I teach at the university level for teachers working on their Masters and specialist degrees. Both are thought provoking and encourage teachers to self reflect on their grading practices!)Thanks for setting up this web site and offering this opportunity to get some questions answered!

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Question

Ken - How do I reach mastery learning at the 8th grade with 160 students? I focus only on summative assessments for mastery because it is overwhelming to do formatives to qualify for summatives. In the last 6 months, I have had 5 lunch periods without students needing to "redo work for mastery." I tried to reduce days, but cannot meet the needs in 2 or 3 days per week. I am working hard on formatives to prepare them for the summatives, but I am still having about 8-10 percent struggling below a 3. To me, if students need more time or practice, then mastery needs to be within the school schedule (a class period) day (not at lunch or after school) or it is viewed as punishment. Many of the teachers are hesitant to try standards-based grading because of the mastery component. Please advise.

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Question

Our school division is currently looking at changing our report cards. Currently we report a percentage. Because our curriculum is outcomes based, I would like to see us move toward an outcomes based report card. My idea would be to get rid of percentages. There are people at the high school level that argue that we need the percents to report to universities for entrance and scholarships. Is this an accurate statement? What would a university do if they received an outcomes based report card without a percentage grade?

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Question

Ref: Making the Grades



Hello,



I was wondering if you could clarify some points for me in regards to your article, Making the Grade.



1. "Eliminating the use of penalties for behaviors such as submitting required assessment evidence after due dates, absence, and academic dishonesty." Would you mind elaborating? Here is my thinking - cheating is against the law and there are penalties for breaking a law. How do such policies prepare anyone for life? If students aren't going to consider due dates, why should they consider being on time to school, going to school, etc.?



2. You are against giving a student a grade of zero for work not done. Do you apply this policy to homework as well? What is the alternative to a zero, assuming the student is still held accountable?



3. You stress the importance of commenting, "each standard could have space to record comments on student strengths, areas for improvement, or observations." If I grade using a detailed rubric and supplement that rubric with comments, is that not the same as what you suggest? I ask because another part of your article states, "well written generic descriptors become the basis for the scoring tools..." Should a rubric not be detailed? I always considered a detailed rubric as an excellent learning tool because it 1) breaks down the assignment and 2) directly shows the student his / her strengths and weaknesses.



4. You state that "quizzes, most homework, and most daily work have no place in grades." Why, then, should a student do homework? Why come to school? What is so challenging about having a student do homework? I agree with some points of your article, such as homework should be used as a supplement, done without parent aid, and done for a purpose. Why the strong opinion to ban such a tool?



I do not mean to be overly blunt in this email, I am just very interested in the logic behind what you write. Most importantly, is it possible for you to give me the name of a school district that follows your guidelines. I am most interested in contacting teachers to get their feedback on your system.



Thank you,



Susan Chiulli

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Question

My children's school division has recently started using a reporting rubic instead of traditional letter or percentage grading. Although I am not opposed to this system necessarily, I am finding it difficult to determine where my children stand with their learning. I understand that this new assessment based system is probably less troubling for the children but I wonder how effective it is for their futures. Do you know of any universities/colleges that accept this system when applying to post secondary education? How do we know as parents where our children are falling behind in their learning if basically there can be a 30 – 40 % (if you equate it to the old percentage based marks) difference within the four options given to assess a child’s performance? I guess I am just trying to understand how this system helps them in the long run. An example another parent gave me was as follows:

If I have to have surgery and I have a choice between two doctors; Doctor 1 has graduated from Yale Sum Cum Laude with outstanding grades and doctor 2 has several letters saying what a great guy he is or how well he performs appendectomies, which would I choose to operate on the tumour on my spine?

I had a hard time arguing against this above scenario and I am looking for more information so as not to be uneducated about how this new system can help and/or hinder my children’s education? If you could provide feedback regarding this area of assessment based grading In would really appreciate it.



Thank you in advance,

Nicole

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Question

I am currently working with school administration and Math department teachers at one high school who have a unique assessment practice. When students given back a marked test or quiz, they must schedule a 1:1 with the teacher to go over their corrections. If they do not show-up for the meeting, they receive a zero for the test or quiz.
This is a practice that I can not find written of in any research, or practiced in any other high school in the province. It has a significant and detrimental impact upon students and grades their behaviour, not achievement.

Have you come across this practice at any other school in Canada?

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Question

Potsdam Central School in Potsdam New York is implementing their interpretation of your effective grading model with minimal positive results. Has Potsdam Central consulted personally with you on their new homework and grading policy? If not, would you be willing to critique their policy and point out areas where they might have gone astray?

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Question

We are using your book as we go through the process of piloting a standards based report card. I am confused about how this all applies to the elementary school student. The growth for younger children isn't a huge amount. Parents want to see a percentage. How do you explain the subjectiveness of the grading system?

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Question

My school is looking as revamping our grading policies and we are using your book as a guide. I teach Kinesiology (physical education)at the high school level, and have been trying to come up with a rubric that uses your grading philosophy. When I think I have something good I'm told to add more to it. I would like to know if you have any Physical education rubrics I could look at or could you take a look at the latest one that my department has designed? Thank you for your time.

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Question

Hello,
I am an assistant professor at The University of Georgia and am currently (as in literally, right now) teaching a classroom assessment course. We have read and discussed your chapter in Ahead of the Curve and have two questions for you.
Question #1
How does/can a standards-based grading system work in middle and high schools, particularly given the large number of students each teacher assesses?
Question #2
How do you help parents understand how to make sense of what a standards-based grading system communicates when they are accustomed to a traditional A-F grading system?

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Question

Your example Figure 5-3, page 109 "A Repair Kit for Grading" indicates that Bob is "basically the student who doesn't need a teacher,.... " (Statment) Question is; After Gwen "learns", and Roger and Pam are graded up to achieve equality of condition, what need is there for a teacher?

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Question

Having been to your sessions in the past, I am just wondering if you can answer a question that was never answered. When a teacher has 200 students, and is expected to provide regular summative and formative feedback, how is this possible without having deadlines? Without giving a "0" The government requires us to give "grades" by eventually by a certain date. If left to June, our deadlines, which must be met can not. I find today we are getting so bogged down by research (which can be questioned) that is not practicle in the "real world". Our profession has changed so much in the last 5 years alone, so I don't believe anyone who has not taught FULL TIME in a real classroom in the last 5 years has any appreciation for the inpracticality of certain ideals vs realism. How do we deal with the ideal vs the real, in a world that gives deadlines and expects people to be accountable for their actions at least at some point?

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Question

Having studied your book 15 Fixes for Broken grades, and having worked through parts of the professional development program, CLASSROOM ASSESSMENT FOR LEARNING, our team of middle school teachers (grades 5-8) are interested in rethinking our report cards so that they more clearly communicate information about student achievement as well as about important behaviors. Can you recommend appropriate Middle School report card formats.

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Question

Mr. O'Connor,



Will you please help me find samples of high school standards-based report cards? I would appreciate it if you would help me find school districts who have adopted a new reporting format at the high school level. Thank you!

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Question

We have spent the past yoear on the book study for 15 Fixes with our school based administrators. This fall we are concenttrating on the principles of grading in our schools. It has been the practice for our schools to administer comprehensive final exams that "cover" all the course content from the beginning of the term to the end of the term. As we examine grading and assessment and the old practice of comprehensive fial exams, can you give some guidance as to how the summative assessment could loo? Does it have to be on the entire course or on the outcome that was currently learned?

As well, some schools still use the pracice of recommendations from final exams. Any suggestions as to how to explain this is not a good assessment practice?

Any guidance or thoughts would be appreciated.

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Question

Ken, there are a number of computer programs in the field claiming to be standards-based, but upon closer inspection don't measure up.

Do you have any recommendations for teachers looking to separate summative from formative assessment scores, do median averaging, and do conversions to the four-point scale?

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Question

I am writing with a question about your 15 Fixes for Broken Grades. My school has recently adopted the theories of Assessment for Learning and we have done a book study in learning teams on the 15 fixes. It is now the end of the school year and we have reached an issue that we cannot seem to solve on our own. We do not give zeros for missed essential assignments, we give I's (incomplete) instead. We have six school days left of this school year and we have a few students who are carrying I's from previous marking periods. We as teachers have repeatedly asked the students to fulfill these I's but to no avail. Many of us have set this Wednesday or Friday as our cutoff point for the missing work. This gives us time, as teachers, to grade what needs to be graded and clear off our "To Do" lists before final exams.
I spoke to my Assistant School Leader (ASL) who is in charge of grading and curriculum to ask if I could give 50% for the missing assignments as of tomorrow (my cut off date). My rationalization is that a zero would artificially deflate the student's grade in an extreme way. The 50% would show that the student failed the assignment (as it was not done), but does not kill their chance of passing for the marking period. My ASL argued back that if the student did not do the work at all, they should receive a zero showing that they did not learn that target at all. If they are re-assessed on the material through the final exam, the teacher could then go back through the incomplete assignments and alter the scores based on the outcome of the matching sections on the final exam.
What are your thoughts on our situation? Your input is greatly appreciated.

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Question

Ken, in my job I support high schools in all their school improvement efforts. I know the topic of grading and reporting practices rocks a high school teacher's world. What might you suggest as a FIRST approach to even just opening up this topic to high school teachers and administration?

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